[Shitai Takemi]

The Bleak death OWNER: Shitai Takemi RANK: S CLASSIFICATION: Offensive RESTRICTIONS: Bioweapon Survival & Control SA, Medical Knowledge SA DESCRIPTION: "If you hear someone mention the Bleak Death... you run. You run far away. You do not linger; you do not fight. If you stay, you will die. Nothing can save you once are infected..." The Bleak Death is a disease caused by a bacteria found within, and produced by, the body of Shitai Takemi. It is a bloodborne bacteria that causes no noteworthy markers, such as change to appearance, smell, etc. within the carrier, and as such, is virtually indistinguishable from normal blood. Those able to analyze blood will find the bacteria within, as well as the proteins they produce as they ravage the body. While it is possible to isolate and acquire a sample of The Bleak Death, such samples rarely last longer than an hour or two at best before the bacteria dies. Takemi's body naturally produces a particular protein that bonds with that which the bacteria creates, rendering its harmful effects mostly inert. The reason it takes some time to activate in a victim stems from the fact that the initial proteins are already bonded, and Takemi's blood will transfer some of her special proteins. Once those are used up, though, the victim will begin to feel the effects of the Bleak Death. ABILITIES: The Bleak Death is a bacterium similar to Clostridia which will inhabit the victim's bloodstream and disseminate throughout the body. While the Bleak Death is the bacteria, the bacteria itself is not the issue - the proteins it creates are. This makes it incredibly difficult to treat or target with an antidote or antibiotic, as the body must be purged of both bacteria and proteins or rendered defensible against both - a feat that only the prepared can hope to achieve. This resilience to immediate treatment is what helps The Bleak Death maintain its status as an incredibly fearsome bioweapon. The bacteria create these protein neurotoxins which are taken into the nerve cell and inhibit the release of transmitters associated with fine adjustment and coordination of motor functions. Inhibition functions are no longer possible for the affected nerves, so the body will continually send excitatory signals which are no longer filtered or counteracted. This results in the inability to control parts of the body, for the passive functions of the body to continue, and will often create spasms as tension begins rapidly spreading throughout the body resulting in tension paralysis. This paralysis is made significantly worse as the proteins cleave the nerve endings, meaning even if some antidote is administered, after a certain point the damage may be too severe to counteract without extreme medical intervention.  As the body will ceaselessly send signals, it will begin to contract every and any muscle. The body contorts painfully, organs begin to cease working, and before they die, the body will begin to literally pull itself apart by snapping and shattering bones, detaching ligaments, and tearing muscles. The pain is immeasurable, and the victim dies in horrible agony, locked in an unbreakable silent scream. The Bleak Death is transmitted by contact with Takemi's own blood. While normally such a thing would seem easily avoidable, as a Shitai, her blood is one of her most prominent weapons. Staying safe is not as easy as it sounds. The blood would need to enter through an open wound or be ingested. The bacteria could also be transferred through thin membranes like in the eyes. Simply coming into contact with her blood is not enough to transmit the disease in most cases. Four posts after being infected with the bacteria, Takemi's counter-proteins are mostly used up and the effects begin. Muscle control begins to dwindle. Slight, dull pain begins spreading across the body. Before this, and at this point, an anti-bacterial antidote could stop the progress of the disease without issue, as could other suitable medical treatments or medical techniques. In the next post, muscle spasms begin. Small, randomized, and across the body. They are a sharp pain, but each spasm only a moment before receding to be replaced with two more elsewhere. At this stage, the bacteria have created enough proteins to be a threat. A simple, catch-all antidote is no longer sufficient. Medical intervention by a trained medical shinobi would be required.  After two more posts, breathing has become difficult. Light-headedness sets in. Muscles are starting to fail. Coordination suffers greatly. At this point, successful treatment without issue is practically impossible. Only with an appropriate medicine prepared specifically by Takemi would it be possible to stop the progress of the Bleak Death without dire ramifications for long-term health. Over the next three posts motor functions deteriorate and are all but gone. Moving under their own control is basically impossible. The victim is in horrible pain. Even if they are able to survive, the damage has been done. Recovery is a pipe dream at best.  By the twelfth post since infection, the victim is effectively dead. There is no way to save them from their doom. If they could still speak, they'd beg for death, but their body has contorted so horribly that it is beginning to tear itself apart. They cannot speak. They cannot scream. The only sounds they can make is that of breaking bones and snapping tendons. In the thirteenth post the Bleak Death claims its victim. They barely resemble the human they once were. Organ failure, acute shock, and egregious trauma could all be the cause of death - but it is the Bleak Death that delivered it. Scarlet Camellia OWNER: Shitai Takemi RANK: A CLASSIFICATION: Offensive RESTRICTIONS: Bioweapon SA, Medical Knowledge SA DESCRIPTION: Scarlet Camellia is a pulmonary vascular disease that is transmitted through liquid, such as blood or saliva, including breath. It is a bacterial infection that targets the small blood vessels in the lungs, weakening them until they rupture which causes internal bleeding.  The bacteria are not something that can be seen with the naked eye but are observable in a liquid sample with the proper equipment. Exceptional quantities of bacteria will cause a clear liquid, such as water or saliva, to turn red. Scarlet Camellia, in a weaponized form, is contained within aerosolized canisters. It is a bright, scarlet liquid which releases into a similarly colored mist. The only reason it appears this way is due to an incredibly high concentration of the bacteria. It's primary method of transmission from host to host is through causing a victim to cough and expel misty vapors containing the bacteria. The bacteria do not live long outside of the body, as such, once their liquid solution dries up, they will die. Containing a sample is also rather difficult as they require a steady flow of oxygen. ABILITIES: Scarlet Camellia, a bacterium that causes an infection within the lungs, targets the blood vessels of the host with a protein that will cause weakening and degradation, and inevitably rupturing.  It is transferred by breathing in vapors containing the bacteria, or through blood or saliva transfer between the host and a possible victim. Once breathed in, the bacteria will cause light coughing beginning within and over the next three posts. Beginning in and worsening over the next three posts, the victim experiences severe coughing, including coughing up a faint bloody mist. Over the next three posts, the lungs will begin to fill with blood, eventually causing them to drown unless intervention is administered. An appropriate anti-bacterial medication administered within the first three posts is sufficient to counteract the bacteria. Afterwards, it can stop progression, but once the lungs fully rupture in post seven, the damage is done and extended medical care is required. Medical intervention such as medical techniques can reduce the severity or nullify the bacteria entirely if they have appropriate effects. Without medical attention, the ruptured blood vessels will cause inevitable death.  Creeping Doom OWNER: Shitai Takemi RANK: A CLASSIFICATION: Offensive RESTRICTIONS: Bioweapon SA, Medical Knowledge SA, Plot Approval for Use (Creates a Localized or Site-wide Plot when used) DESCRIPTION: Creeping doom is a disease caused by a deadly bacterium. The bacteria invade the hosts body by fluids, such as pus, blood, saliva, and vapors, and will spread throughout the body via the circulatory system. It will eventually settle into the nervous system and begin to do its work. An infected host is not immediately identifiable but becomes very obvious well before they are dangerous to others. The Creeping Doom bacteria will begin by causing swelling of the lymph nodes, followed by painful, itchy rashes across the body. The lymph nodes will soon become infected, fill with fluid, and create large pustules on the body.  Other symptoms of the disease include a variety of the following: fever, fatigue, shivering, vomiting, headaches, intolerance to light, pain in the back and limbs, sleeplessness, apathy, delirium, insomnia, stupor, a staggering gait, speech disorder, and loss of memory. It can, and often does, transfer to the lungs where it can present as pneumonia and fill the lungs with fluid which causes coughing and discharge of contagious phlegm and saliva.  The disease, if left untreated, will cause death through one of a number of different symptoms, but most often through drowning on fluids. As the disease progresses, the swollen lymph nodes, or buboes, will get bad enough that they rupture - even after death, which means handling the bodies is a terrible idea and burning them on the spot is a better alternative. The Creeping Doom is a dangerous disease, and quite terrifying, but it is not necessarily viable in combat beyond the implications of what it can do. It is very treatable in the early stages, but later on a threshold will be passed in which the host will never recover. This is generally signified by madness and aggression as the bacteria corrupts the central nervous system and encourages their dying host to find future hosts for it to spread to. The bacteria will live for quite some time once the host has fully perished. So long as there is organic material for it to consume, it will live, which means it can live on a deceased host for weeks or months. Said corpses have a tendency to fill with gas and bloat, leading to explosions of noxious, infectious gases if disturbed.  ABILITIES: The disease known as Creeping Doom is inevitably fatal unless dealt with. Unlike some of Takemi's other bioweapons, the disease can be treated up to three days before symptoms start to progress to problematic stages. As that time passes, treatment is less sure, but if targeted in the first day it is effectively guaranteed to be treated. During this time, the disease is spreading throughout the body and working to take over the central nervous system of the host and interfering with the lymphatic system. However, upon the fourth day, symptoms begin to rapidly appear and progress. Any number of over a dozen symptoms could appear, but most commonly are intense fevers, fatigue, vomiting, delirium, and stupor. There is about a thirty percent chance an infected individual will develop a pneumonic version which will target the lungs and fill them with fluid. It has a tendency to result in earlier fatalities than the alternative version. By the end of the first week since symptoms began to appear, the host has passed a threshold of no return. They are the walking dead. Even if the disease could be treated, the damage done to the body is more severe than even the best medical professionals can hope to heal. The bacterial infection causes madness and heightened aggression, leading to the dying victim lashing out at anything it can come across, which serves to transmit the disease between new hosts. The Creeping Doom is generally not fatal in humans as they will be able to receive treatment before it kills them. However, the biggest issues are when treatment is not available, or when it cannot be isolated within a population before it begins to spread as it requires manpower and resources to deal with. Unlike some other bioweapons, the Creeping Doom can be treated at any point up until its fatal level. However, it can take some time before the host returns to normal functions and is safe to be around other people. Crimson harvest OWNER: Shitai Takemi RANK: A CLASSIFICATION: Offensive RESTRICTIONS: Bioweapon SA & Medical Knowledge SA for manufacturing only DESCRIPTION: Crimson Harvest is a specially designed, man-made virus that is in the form of a red, powdery liquid. It is generally applied to weapons and transmitted through open wounds. It can be transmitted through ingestion, through thin membranes like the eyes, or directly into the blood stream. ABILITIES: Crimson Harvest is a simple virus that lives up to its name by inhibiting the activity of blood clotting factors in the human body. Even a tiny bit of the virus is capable of causing a small wound to bleed uncontrollably as the body will no longer be able to staunch the flow of blood.  It is a fast-acting virus, and when applied directly to a wound begins working immediately. If it is acquired in some other fashion, such as through ingestion, it can take up to three posts before it begins to work and will cause all existing open wounds to begin bleeding. Generally, applying pressure or clamping blood vessels is sufficient to discourage extreme blood loss, but can make fighting under such circumstances less than effective. A typical antidote pill is only occasionally sufficient to stop Crimson Harvest. However, any appropriate medical technique can be used to undo or reverse its effects; a clotting-factor transfusion is the most effective manner of short-term care.  If someone under the effect of Crimson Harvest is wounded, it is very easy for it to become fatal. On its own, it will not be an issue but generally won't go away unless treated by a medical professional meaning an injury later can be an unexpected problem. Therefore, it is not fatal unless the victim suffers sufficient wounds to bleed out.

[Toff E]

Hihi Faire!

Before I get into any serious meat and potatoes of the effects I'd like to note a problem with two of the poisons here in particular that needs correction before proper grading.

Bleak Death and Creeping Doom: These are not acceptable as they are currently. While I understand the concept of carrying a poison in one's blood. Having poisoned fluids in one's system without it effecting them is quite literally the entire Hijutsu ability of the Shouki clan and can not on good will be approved even here. Creeping Doom in similar fashion is a Fungi based poison and while that isn't an infraction to carry, it is more or less a weaker interpretation of what the Gure clan CAN and DO use their fungal spores for.

Both of these will need to be changed before further grading.

[Shitai Takemi]

I've made a major overhaul to Creeping Doom to remove its fungal nature and replaced it with a bacterium, instead. 

The Bleak Death should be fine per our discussion. There is sufficient justification and capability for it to exist as it is. As it is not a poison or toxin, but a disease, it does not fall under the clearly defined purview of the Shouki clan. 

Shouki clan targets the following in their list:
- poisons

- toxins

- truth serums

- psychedelic drugs

This does not include bacterial, viral, or fungal infections. However, they would likely be able to utilize their poison resistance hijutsu to counter many of these bioweapons as the bacteria they utilize create proteins that should be targetable by the Shouki. They'd remain carriers for the disease until treated for the bacteria or virus, though, as their hijutsu does not target them. 

[Toff E]

Disease still does not fall under the banner of poisons, and as per staff discussion on this topic before it will not be allowed as such.

Please change as per previous review.

[Shitai Takemi]

Alright, so, let me get this straight.

In these discussions about my proposed stuff that I am not privy to, these were determined to be both...

A.) Considered a poison.
and...
B.) Not under the banner of poison

Even if we assume it is a poison, utilizing a character SA to provide immunity to one poison is within established precedent, and provides no conflict with the Shouki on its own. If we assume that the character is able to do something other characters are able to do, and acquire immunity to a single poison, then it should be no issue.

Even if we assume that is not possible, Takemi is still physically capable of having poison in her blood. It would, at that point, just have an effect on her, too, in which case, she'd have to provide medical care or immunization to herself periodically, or even consistently, and for someone of her medical capabilities, that is no issue.

The Shitai are also able to isolate hostile substances with their blood and use it as a weapon, and the Shitai predate the Shouki, so if anything, the Shouki run a risk of conflicting with the Shitai, not the other way around.

If, we assume your latest post is correct, and these are not, in fact, a poison, then there obviously is no conflict in the first place.

So, as far as I am concerned, because I am not included in these behind-doors discussion, your argument for conflict with another clan is hollow at best, and antagonistic declining of content due to personal bias at worst.

[Toff E]

The point of previous review and the review before was establishing that Diseases are not poisons. These COULD BE poisons, but they need to not be labelled as spreadable contagions to work within the rules.

I agree that an SA could be gained to give immunity to a poison, but as it stands diseases can not and will not function under the poison rules. Which means even in the vacuum of this being the case, they should be written differently.

I ask that you change them to coincide more with normal poisons and remove mention of them being disease. This has been staff’s ruling, not just my own take.

[Shitai Takemi]

*Sigh*

You could work on your clarity a little bit... Lol

---

Putting that aside, what is the interpretation of spreading contagion?

Currently, only one of them is actually capable of spreading beyond the initial site of use, and that is Creeping Doom, which is a plot device only and requires plot approval for use, per the application.

The others cannot spread beyond the immediate vicinity. They could, at best, spread to another adjacent person in a single fight under specific conditions for a very limited time, but could never really leave the battlefield, because by that time it has either been treated or killed the person.

So, they're not really spreadable across a population or anything. I could potentially clarify that sort of thing a little more?

I don't think that them being a disease is necessarily a problem, so long as they can function within the proper rules as a poison. The problem is, like so many other things around here, the proper rules are often very vague, subjective, and more often than not, not even written down.

Currently, as far as I am aware, they do. Except Creeping Doom, which as a plot device rather than combat tool, probably shouldn't/wouldn't be held to the same standard.

[Toff E]

For transparency, I think you would be nerfing your capabilities listing these as both poisons and bacteria. Poison is an easier tag to work under, and I think that these should. Staff has agreed that these should just be denoted as just not cultured bacteria or viruses. You can have bio-weapon poisons (look to mustard gas) that affect the body as you have listed initially, but calling them bacterium and viruses is the no go here.

Again, please change that and we can continue with the review to get these in line with where they should be in balance.

[Shitai Takemi]

I'm not sure what the problem is, really.

I don't want it to come across like I am trying to be difficult, but I've yet to receive much of an explanation as to why, and without knowing why, I might just end up changing wording and end up running afoul of the same problems.

What part of it being a bacterium rather than a than a poison, which in and of itself is a rather catch-all term, is the problem? Poison is just a harmful substance that causes illness or death in a living organism when introduced or absorbed.

Presumably, the potential ability for the bacteria to spread beyond the initial point of introduction, such as from person-to-person, is the primary issue. If that is the case, Takemi could easily enough just utilize the base bacteria described to isolate the proteins created by the bacteria to make poisons with identical functions but reduced ability to spread.

So, not knowing what exactly I am hung up on will cause me difficulty.

[Toff E]

Sorry for taking so long, I was busy IRL.

A poison that is in lore created from the protein of a bacteria or virus is fine, we just want to avoid the language of diseases to avoid player confusion about infection and spread.

Additionally, because bacteria and viruses and, thus, their proteins are very small, they're very hard to detect and their exposure is very likely.

When we're looking at poisons we generally review along lines of detectability, amount needed for exposure, time of exposure needed to produce effects, what the actual effects/symptoms of exposure are, how long those effects persist afterwards or if those effects are lethal, how much is carried in a standard dose (and thus how many weapons it could theoretically be applied to.

That is to say, we don't want poisons that are going to be impossible to avoid, only need small amounts of build-up to reach critical exposure, act quickly, and have long-term effects all while being incredibly abundant. We're working on a poison guide to address this issue, but poisons of significant strength in one area should have weaknesses in others

[cocoa]

As there has been no reply on this in the last two weeks, this and the character application which requires its completion will be removed from notify for the time being. Please feel free to repost when edits are made.